SONDEO - Localizador GPS para nuestras furgos

[forote]

Esa es la cuestión
Que no se vea nada
¿Puedes poner el enlace del tuyo para verlo?
Yo creo que hay que coger uno discreto, pero efectivo
Lo ideal es que lleve antenas incorporadas, y que el estar escondido en el motor, no sea impedimento para que las antenas conecten con el satélite 

Unos post atrás comenté el mío... ( el del otro compi, parece mas profesional... )

Hola a tod@s
Mi opinion...
Yo hace unos meses he comprado este  "gps + cargador para 12v":
http://www.ebay.es/itm/New-Quad-band-Mini-Personal-GPS-Tracker-TK102-B-with-Memory-Magnet-Charger-/200660617336?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eb84e0878#ht_8106wt_1166

Metes una tarjeta de memoria y una tarjeta de telefonia de prepago (cargar cada 6 meses 5€) anulas código pin y seguir las instrucciones (autorizar números para que reciban posición, fecha y hora.. y poco mas)
Buscas una localización al aparato en cuestión, conectas y ya esta.
Donde poner: cuanto mas cerca del exterior mejor (mejor señal si esta en garaje)

Fallos: Tu tienes cobertura en una planta -2 de un garaje? NO, pues el aparato tampoco...
Al salir te da posicion? SI, pero han podido hacerla de todo a la furgo, incluso localizar el gps (depende de donde lo pongas...)
PARA QUE FUNCIONE TIENES QUE TENER COBERTURA DE RED Y COBERTURA DE SATELITES GPS (si no te da ultima posicion valida)...

EN MI CASO SOLO QUERIA LOCALIZADOR, Nada de desconectador ni nada. (asi evito problemas con tanto ordenador de a bordo)

RECOMIENDO MI LOCALIZADOR GPS SI ó NO? Si, pero no es perfecto ni de coña. (En otros foros han montado este, buscar en google)

RECOMENDACION: No digais a nadie donde lo habeis puesto (y menos en un foro) NI DEIS EL NUMERO DE TFNO A NADIE QUE NO SEA FAMILIA CON EXPLICACION

COMPRA CONJUNTA EN EBAY: Yo NO

MI Resumen de instrucciones (por si alguno pregunta cosas que hace)

GPS Tracker TK102-B
5.5 Change the password
5.5.1 Set Password: Send sms: "password+old password+space+new password" to the unit to change the password.
For Example, pls send sms: " password123456 888888" to terminal device, it will reply sms: "password OK". New password 888888 changed in success.
5.6 Authorization
There are only 5 cell phone numbers able to be authorized, be sure to set the authorization phone number before use.
5.6.1 Call the tracker for 10 times continuously and get position correctly, then it will make the cell phone number as the authorized number automatically. 
5.6.2 Send SMS：" admin+password+space+cell phone number" to set up a authorized number. The other authorized numbers should be set by the first authorized number. If the number is successfully authorized, the unit will reply "admin ok!" in SMS.
5.6.3 Send SMS：" noadmin+password+space+authorized number" to delete the authorized number.
5.9 Auto Track
5.9.1 Send SMS command "fix030s005n+password" to the tracker device, it will report the Geo-info at 30s intervals for 5 times. (s:second, m:minute, h:hour). This command setting must be in 3 digits and the maximum value is 255.
5.9.2 Unlimited times auto track: Send SMS "fix030s***n+password" to the tracker device, it will reply the Geo-info continuously at 30 seconds intervals.
5.9.3 Cancellation: Send SMS "nofix+password" to the tracker device.
Note: the interval must not less than 20s.
5.12 Storage
5.12.2 Storage upon times: Send SMS: "save030s005n+password" to the tracker unit, it will reply "save ok", and will store the lat, long locations every 30 seconds for 5 times. (S: second, m: minute; h: hour).
5.12.3 Multi-Storage：Send sms:"save030s***n+ password" to tracker device, it will reply "save ok".
5.18 SOS button
Press the SOS for 3 seconds, it will send "help me!+ Geo-info" to all the authorized numbers every 3 minutes. It will stop sending such a SMS when any authorized number reply SMS "help me!" to the tracker.



Hay muchas paginas que hablan de este localizador, Leer ¡¡¡¡  NO SOY EXPERTO Y MENOS COMERCIAL DE ESTA MARCA ( y el mio esta sin acabar de instalar, estoy de pruebas)
Espero a ver sido de ayuda. SALUDOS

[forote]

INSTRUCCIONES COMPLETAS DEL MIO

MANUAL GPS Tracker TK102-B

Content
1. Summary   3
2 Applications   3
3 Hardware Description   3
4 Specs.   4
5 Usage   4
5.1 SIM card installation   5
5.2 Battery and Charger   5
5.3 Startup   5
5.4 Initialization   6
5.5 Change the password   6
5.6 Authorization   7
5.7 Single Locating   7
5.8 Get absolute street address   8
5.9 Auto Track   8
5.10 Location based service (LBS)   9
5.11 Monitor (Voice Surveillance)   9
5.12 Storage   9
5.13 Data Load   10
5.14 Shock sensor alarm   11
5.15 Geo-fence   11
5.16 Movement alert   11
5.17 Overspeed alert:   12
5.18 SOS button   12
5.19 Low battery alert   12
5.20 State Checking   12
5.21 IMEI checking:   12
5.22 Terminal (local) Time Setting   13
5.23 GPRS setting   13
5.24 Modes switch between "SMS" and "GPRS"   14
5.25 Web platform and PC installation tracking software   14
6 .Cautions   14
7 Faults & The solutions   15


1. Summary
Working Based on existing GSM/GPRS network and GPS satellites, this product can locate and monitor any remote targets by SMS or internet.
2 Applications
   Vehicle rental / Fleet management etc
   Powerful magnet+water proof, adsorbing in the hidden place of car for tracking secretly.
   Protect child / the old / the disabled / pet etc
   Provide peace-of-mind for businessmen
   Personnel Management
   Criminals Tracking
3 Hardware Description
3.1 Front face                  3.2 Rear face 
                             
                                             

3.3 Side face





3.4 Bottom face



3.5 Interior                                   
     
       
4 Specs.     
Content   Specs.
Dim.   64mm x 46mm x 17mm(1.8"*2.5"*0.65")
Weight   50g
Network   GSM/GPRS
Band   850/900/1800/1900Mhz
GPS chip   SIRF3 chip
GPS sensitivity   -159dBm
GPS accuracy   5m
Time To First Fix   Cold status  45s
Warm status  35s
Hot status  1s
Car charger   12--24V  input
      5V   output
Wall charger   110－220V  input
       5V   output
Battery   Chargeable changeable 3.7V 800mAh Li-ion battery
Standby   80hours
Storage Temp.   -40°C to +85°C
Operation Temp.   -20°C to +55°C
Humidity   5%--95% non-condensing
5 Usage
5.1 SIM card installation
Make sure that there is no call transfer and call display is on, and PIN code off. The SMS message must in Text format, can't be identified for PDU format.
Steps:
5.1.1 Open the rear cover, and pick out the battery.
5.1.2 Push the foil up according the arrow on the foil and load the miscro SD card and push back.
 
5.1.3 Put the SIM card into the holder as picture shows.
 
5.2 Battery and Charger
Do charge the battery to capacity in 8 -12 hours for first time. Please use the battery and charger provided by the manufacturer. This unit adopts built-in Li-ion battery, and full battery can standby 80 hours. After first use, the battery usually should be charged fully in 3-5 hours.
Cautions:
a: For it's Li-ion battery, which contains harmful chemicals and may burst, please don't bump, puncture it violently and keep it off fire.
b: Please charge the battery in time to keep it working normally.

5.3 Startup
   Put the SIM card and battery in place.
   Turn on the unit outdoors by pressing the "on/off" button until the indicator is on.
   For first use, please initialize the unit and restore it to default setting. (Please refer to 5.4 for instruction.)
   In 10 or 40 seconds, the unit will begin to work and acquire the GSM signals as well as the GPS signals. The indicator will keep flashing every 3 seconds when the unit has received the signals.
   When this unit receives GPS signals normally, you can use it and do any setting as the instructions of this manual.
5.4 Initialization
Send "begin+password" in SMS to the unit, it will reply "begin ok" and initialize all the settings. (Default password: 123456)
For example, send SMS" begin123456" to the tracker via a cell phone, If succeeded,  if will reply"begin ok".
5.5 Change the password
5.5.1 Set Password: Send sms: "password+old password+space+new password" to the unit to change the password.
For Example, pls send sms: " password123456 888888" to terminal device, it will reply sms: "password OK". New password 888888 changed in success.

5.5.2 Be sure keep the new password in mind, you have to upload the software to restore the original setting in case of losing the new password.
5.5.3 Make sure the new password is in 6 digits Arabic numbers, or the tracker can not recognize the password.
5.5.4 Make sure that all the symbol"+"in sms commends is just for quick understanding, which don't need to enter "+" in sms, and "space" means press the spacebar button of the cell phone.
5.6 Authorization
There are only 5 cell phone numbers able to be authorized, be sure to set the authorization phone number before use.
5.6.1 Call the tracker for 10 times continuously and get position correctly, then it will make the cell phone number as the authorized number automatically. 
5.6.2 Send SMS：" admin+password+space+cell phone number" to set up a authorized number. The other authorized numbers should be set by the first authorized number. If the number is successfully authorized, the unit will reply "admin ok!" in SMS.
5.6.3 Send SMS：" noadmin+password+space+authorized number" to delete the authorized number.
5.6.4 For roaming purpose, you have to add your country code ahead of the cell phone number, for example, please send：" admin123456 +8613322221111" to tracker to set 13322221111 as an authorized number.

5.7 Single Locating
5.7.1 If there is no authorized number, when any number dials up the unit, it will report a Geo-info; If there is already an authorized number, then it will not respond when an unauthorized number calls it up.
5.7.2 When an authorized number dials up the unit, it will hang up and report a real-time Geo-info as below:

*Tracking location, When GPS signals is weak, the position of latitude and longitude included in the SMS is the position that the tracker received GPS signals at last. If it is different with its exact current location, pay attention to check the time included in the SMS you got.

5.8 Get absolute street address   
5.8.1 You must set up the APN of your local GSM network for the SIM card in tracker first before using this function, if there is user name and password for GPRS login, Please refer to 5.23.1 and 5.23.2 to configure the APN, user name and password for GPRS login.
5.8.2 After configure the APN, send:" address+password" to device, it will reply SMS including absolute street address. For example: No.113, Nantou Guankou 2nd Rd. Nanshan district, Shenzhen, Guangdong, china.

5.9 Auto Track
5.9.1 Send SMS command "fix030s005n+password" to the tracker device, it will report the Geo-info at 30s intervals for 5 times. (s:second, m:minute, h:hour). This command setting must be in 3 digits and the maximum value is 255.
5.9.2 Unlimited times auto track: Send SMS "fix030s***n+password" to the tracker device, it will reply the Geo-info continuously at 30 seconds intervals.
5.9.3 Cancellation: Send SMS "nofix+password" to the tracker device.
Note: the interval must not less than 20s.
5.10 Location based service (LBS)
When the tracker device doesn't received valid GPS signals, tracker will locate by LBS, the messages includes the GPS coordinates of the last position in SMS mode, but the LAC in message is the current new position, the location can be seen by input the LAC code in the menu "Manual Track" of web platform www.gpstrackerxy.com, you can also send command "address+password" to tracker to get the newest absolute address and newest GPS coordinates as well; tracker will automatically switch to track by location based service in GPRS mode, and actualized on the map of web server with LBS mark. And there may be some inaccuracy with actual location by LBS tracking; the bias depends on GSM reception.
Note: This feature can be used normally in most areas according to the signal of GSM network. It may not be available in some areas.
5.11 Monitor (Voice Surveillance)
5.11.1 The command to switch between Track and Monitor are "tracker" and " monitor".
5.11.2 The default mode is "track" (Track mode).
5.11.3 Send SMS "monitor+password" to the unit, and it will reply "monitor ok!" and switch to "monitor" mode.
5.11.4 Send SMS "tracker+password" to the unit, it will reply "tracker ok!" and restore to "track" mode.
5.12 Storage
5.12.1 Auto Storage：When the tracker devices lost GSM signals or fall offline from GPRS, tracker will store the tracking position and alerts automatically in the flash upon the pre-set condition, when GSM signals get back, all the event alerts will be auto-sent to the authorized numbers or monitoring platform (server), but the stored tracking data should be loaded to the monitoring platform via SMS command.
5.12.2 Storage upon times: Send SMS: "save030s005n+password" to the tracker unit, it will reply "save ok", and will store the lat, long locations every 30 seconds for 5 times. (S: second, m: minute; h: hour).
5.12.3 Multi-Storage：Send sms:"save030s***n+ password" to tracker device, it will reply "save ok".
5.12.4: Storage Clearance: send SMS: "clear+ password" to tracker device, it will reply "clear ok".
5.12.5：Storage Volume: Built-in flash 1MB (store about 16,000 positions); external SD card support 2GB at most.
5.12.6 The stored data can be copied to computer via the USB cable which put in the package. The route of the stored data can be seen by importing data in the menu " Data Import" of web platform www.gpstrackerxy.com
5.13 Data Load
5.13.1 Current date Load: Send SMS: "load+ password" to tracker device, it will reply: "load ok" if the device is working well under GPRS mode; if not, it will reply "load fail! Please check gprs" that means device does not work under GPRS mode.
5.13.2 Specified date Load： Send SMS: "load+ password+ space+ year month date" to tracker device, it will reply: "load ok" and load the tracking data to the monitoring platform upon the valid time you choose. For Example: send SMS: "load123456 20110425" to the tracker device, means to load the tracking data of 25th April 2011 to monitoring platform.           

5.14 Shock sensor alarm
It is disabled as default, send "shock+password to tracker, tracker will reply "shock ok!". "Sensor alarm+lat/long" will send to authorized phone number when tracker is being shocked, and one alarm for each shock event trigger.

Cancel: Send "noshock+password" to cancel the shock sensor alarm.
5.15 Geo-fence
Set up a geo-fence for the unit to restrict its movements within a district. The unit will send the message to the authorized numbers when it breaches the district.
5.15.1 Set up: When the unit stays immobile in a place for 3-10 minutes, the user can Send SMS: "stockade+password+space+latitude,longitude; latitude,longitude" to unit to set the restricted district. In case of breach, it will send SMS "stockade!+geo-info" to the authorized numbers every 3 minutes.
Remark: The first latitude&longitude is coordinate of the top left corner of the Geo-fence, while the second latitude&longitude is the coordinate of the bottom right corner.
5.15.2 Cancel: Send SMS:" nostockade+password" to deactivate this function.

5.16 Movement alert
5.16.1 Set up: When the unit stays immobile in a place for 3-10 minutes, the user can send SMS: "move+password" to the unit, then the unit will reply "move ok!". In case of such a movement（the unit default distance is 200M）, it will send SMS "Move+ Geo-info" to the authorized numbers every 3 minutes.
5.16.2 Cancel: Send SMS:" nomove+password" to deactivate the movement alert.
5.17 Overspeed alert:
5.17.1 Set up: Send SMS:" speed+password+space+080" to the unit (suppose the speed is 80km/h), and it will reply "speed ok!". When the target moves exceeding 80 km/h, the unit will send SMS :"speed+080!+Geo-info" to the authorized numbers every 3 minutes.
5.17.2 Cancel: Send SMS "nospeed+password" to deactivate the overspeed alarm.
Remark: The recommended speed should be not less than 50km/h. For below that rate, it will be effected the accuracy by gps signals drift etc.

5.18 SOS button
Press the SOS for 3 seconds, it will send "help me!+ Geo-info" to all the authorized numbers every 3 minutes. It will stop sending such a SMS when any authorized number reply SMS "help me!" to the tracker.
5.19 Low battery alert
When GPS device battery is going to be about 3.7V, it will send SMS:"low battery+Ge-info"
at 3 minutes interval.
5.20 State Checking
Send SMS:"check+password" to the tracker device, it will reply the recent status via SMS as: GSM: 100% GPS: OK/NO GPRS: ON/OFF battery: 100%.
5.21 IMEI checking:
Send SMS command "imei+password" to the unit. E.g.: Send SMS command "imei123456" to the unit, an IMEI number in 15 digits will be replied to your cell phone.

5.22 Terminal (local) Time Setting
5.22.1 Send SMS "time+space+zone+password+space+local time zone".
For example, Send SMS "time zone123456 8" (time zone of China).
If the local time zone is negative as "-8", then it should set as SMS:
"time zone123456 -8".

5.23 GPRS setting
User must send SMS via cell phone to set up IP, port and APN before starting GPRS.
5.23.1 Setting up APN
5.23.1.1 APN standards for Access Point Name and differs from country to country. For more information about the local APN, inquire with your local GPRS network operator.
5.23.1.2 Text the tracker a SMS "APN+password + Space + your local APN" via a cell phone and if succeeded in setup, the tracker will return the message "APN OK".
5.23.1.3 e.g. send SMS command "APN123456 CMNET". If succeeded, "APN OK" is returned by the tracker in SMS.
Notes: 123456 refer to password of tracker and CMNET is the APN of China Mobile (One of GSM Operator in china).

5.23.2 GPRS User ID and password Setup
5.23.2.1 In most countries, the user name and password involving GPRS login are not compulsorily necessary, therefore, the entry can be skipped. For those countries requiring user name and password, please configure as following:
5.23.2.2 Send SMS "up+password+space+user+space+password"If succeeded,
"user,password ok" is returned by the tracker in SMS.
5.23.2.3 For instance, send SMS "up123456 jonnes 666666" to the tracker, and if succeeded, the tracker returns "user, password OK"
5.23.3 IP and port setup
5.23.3.1 Send SMS as below via a cell phone: adminip +password + Space + IP Address + Space + Port Number.  If succeeded, "adminip OK" is returned by the device in SMS.
5.23.3.2 e.g, Send SMS command "adminip123456 202.104.150.75 9000" to the tracker device, If succeeded, "adminip OK" is returned by the device in SMS.( 123456 is default password，202.104.150.75 is IP，9000 is port).
5.24 Modes switch between "SMS" and "GPRS"
5.24.1 The default mode is "SMS"
5.24.2 Send SMS "GPRS+password" to the unit, and it will reply "GPRS ok!" and switch to "GPRS" mode.
5.24.3 Send SMS "SMS+password" to the unit, it will reply "SMS ok!" and restore to "SMS" mode.
5.25 Web platform and PC installation tracking software
5.25.1 Web based platform www.gpstrackerxy.com. Configuration IP: 202.104.150.75 Port: 9000. Please check "software platform user manual" included in the CD for detailed operation information.
5.25.2 PC based installation tracking software included in the CD in package.
6 .Cautions
Please comply with the instructions to extend the unit life:
6.1 Keep the unit dry. Any liquid, i.e. rain, moisture, may destroy or damage the inside circuitry.
6.2 Don't use & store the unit in dusty places.
6.3 Don't put the unit in overheated or overcooled places.
6.4 Handle carefully. Don't vibrate or shake it violently.
6.5 Clear the unit with a piece of dry cloth. Don't clean in chemicals, detergent.
6.6 Don't paint the unit, this may cause some foreign materials left in between the parts.
6.7 Don't disassemble or refit the unit.
6.8 Please use the battery and charger provided by manufacturer. Using other batteries and chargers will cause unwanted situation.

7 Faults & The solutions
Faults   Solution
Startup Fail   Check the battery and see if it is fully charged or correctly installed.
Hang up Fail   In existence of an authorized number, an unauthorized number dials up the unit. Please initialize the unit and re-set upthe authorized numbers.
No GSM Signal    Please make sure SIM Card is GSM Net and installed correctly; also call display should be on; but no call transfer and PIN code off.

[patriceloco]

las antenas, sobre todo las de gps necesitan tener "visión" del cielo, en general cuanta mas mejor. El aparato, si tiene antena externa puede estar en cualquier lugar, pero la antena en si no se puede poner en cualquier sitio. El mejor sitio sería en el techo y por fuera, pero por dentro tambien hay sitios donde se puede conseguir que vea el cielo. Eso si donde nunca se debe poner es debajo de chapa.

Eso no es del todo cierto, yo lo tengo justo debajo de la chapa del techo (provisionalmente) y pilla los satelites, supongo que a cielo abierto los pillara mejor, ¿cuanto? pues no lo se.
Lo de que sea mejor un cable que dos me parece una tonteria, son cables finisimos y donde pasa uno pueden pasar dos tranquilamente, lo que habria que ver si con dos antenas se coje la misma o mejor señal, aunque eso creo que nunca lo sabremos a ciencia cierta.
Agur.

[agustmaiz]

Pues yo he probado el de Carmapi y comparado con el mio que era el 102b o 103b (el completo con sirena y mando a distancia).
Lo tuve que devolver. Supongo que estaba averiado, pero no cogia cobertura gsm, cuando el.de Carlos funcionaba a la perfeccion.
Al final, lo cambie por un Vt310 y va muy bien. Recibe gsm sin la antena, si, sin antena, aunque parezca increible.

Saludos

Agustin

Tapatalk sin acentos

[3PI]

Buenas!

Creo que fueron menos de dos semanas, recuerdo que tardó "menos de lo normal" (compro mucho en dealextreme y suelen ser 2-4 semanas).

Con el GPS viene un mini-cd con el manual, pero os lo enlazo:

http://www.v-sun.cc/asp_bin/downfile/2012331135922870.pdf

La marca es V-Sun, y como bien dicen por aquí, hay 40 clones iguales si buscais en ebay, por ejemplo. Yo no es que recomiende éste por nada, sólo es porque es el que tengo, me funciona bien y puedo hablar de primera mano. Seguro que hay otros buenos.

En las últimas páginas del manual vienen un resumen de los códigos, pero os pongo los más importantes, un resumen-chuleta de como "ponerlo en marcha":

Hola. Gracias por el aporte.
Recientemente he comprado el mismo chisme, pero para colocarselo a un turismo, y la verdad que me estoy volviendo un poco loco con la programacion.

Realmente, lo que a mi me interesa, es hacer un track en tiempo real, es decir, hacerle un seguimiento a traves de internet, pero no tengo muy claro como hacerlo.

He bajado una aplicacion "server" de la web del fabricante, pero no me funciona en Win-7, creo que por alguna incompatibilidad, y en breve lo voy a probar en un WinXp a ver que pasa.

Pero mi duda es como programar este chisme para poderle hacer un track, ya que la Sim que tiene insertada, tiene tarifa plana de datos.

Por cierto, no tendras el resto del manual traducido, no?. La verdad que el ingles no es mi fuerte

[Caipirinha]

Cómo va el tema??   

[manusolares]

Cómo va el tema??   

Seguimos discutiendo sobre el sexo de los ángeles

[/b]

[parchiis]

Cómo va el tema??   

Échale un vistazo al hilo, pero creo que la conclusión podría ser que se inició un sondeó, se han puesto "encima de la mesa" diferentes opciones y cada uno habrá sacado sus conclusiones para ver si realmente le interesar un localizador y que modelo, como la mayoría de los que se han barajado eran de web chinas, más o menos se ha descartado la compra conjunta ya que en estas páginas no compensa.

*Esta es mi conclusión, pero lee el hilo y podrás sacar tus propias conclusiones sobre el tema.

[patriceloco]

Échale un vistazo al hilo, pero creo que la conclusión podría ser que se inició un sondeó, se han puesto "encima de la mesa" diferentes opciones y cada uno habrá sacado sus conclusiones para ver si realmente le interesar un localizador y que modelo, como la mayoría de los que se han barajado eran de web chinas, más o menos se ha descartado la compra conjunta ya que en estas páginas no compensa.

*Esta es mi conclusión, pero lee el hilo y podrás sacar tus propias conclusiones sobre el tema.

Creo que estas en lo cierto, lo que estaria bien es poner en el primer post a modo de resumen, las distintas posibilidades que la gente ha elegido y que resultados esta teniendo, si funciona bien-mal, si es facil de configurar y cosas asi.
Lo digo mas que nada para que la gente vea las diferentes posibilidades y como funcionan, yo ya tengo el mio "funcionando" y no tengo intencion de comprar otro, pero si veo algo interesante podria recomendarselo a unos amigos.

[javi979]

Yo aun no he pillado ninguno, estoy tratando de saber como conectar el tema del apagado del motor, que es una de las cosas que me interesaba

[sacacharra]

me interesa.

[soul600]

me uno al hilo

[manusolares]

Creo que hay que decidirse pronto por uno
¿Hacemos una votación?

[/b]

[SUA1]

Hola, en agosto me robaron el turismo que tenia y ahora que tengo la furgo estoy interesado en un localizador de estos. Como no veo muy claro que se organice esta cc, los que le habéis dado muchas vueltas al tema a ver si sabéis de algún localizador simple y baratillo. Lo único que busco es que de la posición y funcione a 12v.

[parchiis]

SUA1 leete el hilo que hay aportaciones muy inyeresantes de varios modelos, algunos del tipo que buscas.

Desde mi móvil vía Tapatalk 2